Margarita Lacabe enjoyed her daughter’s performance in the McKinley Elementary School holiday show last December — children signing secular favorites like “Frosty the Snowman” and “Santa Claus is Coming to Town,” when she was shocked by the choir’s next tune.
“The children were singing and they were all regular Christmas songs, but then I heard ‘Silent Night,’” said Lacabe. “I couldn’t believe it.” more
Filed under: News
This is a sensible response from a mother concerned with the mental health of her child. I realize that we often do things without thinking through the issues, reading this article made me think about problems caused by our “automatic” behaviour. Freedom of religion must include freedom from religion. Schools are definitely not the place for religious songs, of any kind. Well done Ms Lacabe!
I couldn’t agree more. Until there’s room for all the world’s religions (and there never will be) why cater to one religious sect? I don’t support anyone proselytizing with my tax dollars.
“Proselytizing with my tax dollars” because some traditional music is played at a Christmas concert! Absolutely hilarious!
It seems to me that a mother “concerned with the mental health of her child” should have a bit more to worry about than having her precious child exposed to (Gasp!) a two hundred year old Christmas carol. The mind truly boggles at the intolerance of some people!
“This is a sensible response from a mother concerned with the mental health of her child.” says Walter Fernandez.
Oh yeah I can’t imagine anything that would drive an impressionable youngster over the edge more than a 200 year old Christmas carol! LOL Too funny Walter!
Sensible response? “a mother concerned with the mental health of her child”? What have you been smoking Walter Fernandez? This woman needs to get a life…or at least get a brain. I’m not even religious but songs like the beautiful “Silent Night” have been part of Christmas celebrations for the last couple of hundred years. Only a real self centered jerk would get upset by them! I really pity this woman’s daughter, her husband and anybody who ever has to be in the same room with her!
Besides the name calling, you seemed to miss her point. Why would a non-Christian want to celebrate (in any religious way) the birth of Jesus Christ? Would you afford the same logic to Muhammad, Joseph Smith, Vishnu, etc.? Speaking of self-centered, can you say C-h-r-i-s-t-i-a-n?
Yeah I can say C-h-r-i-s-t-i-a-n and even though I’d describe myself as a agnostic at best the thought of some traditional religious themed music at Christmas doesn’t turn me to a raging maniac. I do realize that’s hard for you righteous leftist lunatics to understand. Can you spell J-E-R-K? Take a look in the mirror and you’ll see an example of that! The same goes for the nut case Margarita Lacabe!
Mr. Dobbs,
That 200 year old “carol” includes the lyrics “Christ, Lord at thy Birth.” Do you know that for Jews and Muslims it would violate the word of God to utter “Christ, Lord at the Birth”? Do you think so lightly of religion that parents should have their children violate the most deeply held religious tenets because a song is old? Isn’t replacing the song with an equally well known, non-religious carol the easiest, most efficient, least disruptive solution?
Oh what terrible lyrics Mr. Knobb! Do you think our civilization will crumble if they are heard in a school auditorium in a Christmas concert?! If Jews and Muslims don’t want to “utter” those blasphemous lyrics I have no objection but they have no right to deny others the right to “utter” them nor audiences to listen to them at this one time of year. There is quite a bit in the Muslim religion in particular that others may find quite objectionable but I don’t see too many people trying to censor them. Like I said somewhere else this is simply much ado about nothing! Get over it!
Mr. Silva,
I am not saying that the lyrics are terrible, nor that civilization will crumble if the lyrics are uttered. You need to improve upon your reading comprehension (to begin with, the spelling of my name).
What is most telling from your post is your perception that “they” – the minorities, “have no right ot deny others the right to ‘utter’ them nor audiences to listen to them”. In one sense you are correct. Children of all denominations are free to sing Silent Night, and cannot be prohibited from doing so. And people of all denominations are free to listen to whatever music they choose, from Milli Vanilli to Mozart.
This issue here is whether a public school, funded entirely with public money, run by a government that is bound by the terms of the United States and California Constitutions, is allowed to ask all school children to perform a song which contains lyrics that are overtly religious in nature and which, as you so correctly put it, are blasphemous to at least two major religions.
It appears that your position is that if Christian school administrators and teachers choose to perform an overtly religious Christian hymn, and the majority Christian children enjoy singing the song, then the solution is to have the objecting children abstain, and the objecting parents to leave, so that the “right” of Christian people to perform their religious songs wherever and whenever they choose, including in public elementary school programs, is not abridged.
So if the Christian teachers and administrators decided that they were going to teach the children, and have the children recite “Our Father”, or “Hail Mary”, the solution is to just have the “other” kids stand idly by, because no one is going to stop Christians from praying whenever and wherever they want to?
Andrew Kopp wrote:
“It appears that your position is that if Christian school administrators and teachers choose to perform an overtly religious Christian hymn, and the majority Christian children enjoy singing the song, then the solution is to have the objecting children abstain, and the objecting parents to leave, so that the “right” of Christian people to perform their religious songs wherever and whenever they choose, including in public elementary school programs, is not abridged.”
Mr Kopp (sorry about previous mis-spelling of your name),
Yup that’s pretty much my position. It’s hardly “wherever and whenever they choose though”. I certainly wouldn’t want religious songs of any denomination sung daily or even weekly or monthly in public school classrooms, am totally against mandated prayer saying in public schools too BUT Christmas is a special occasion. These Christmas carols have been a part of Christmas ever since I can remember (and I’m 68!), long before that in fact. Many are quite beautiful, many the work of great composers and I have no problem at all with a few of them being included in a Chrismas concert along with “Frosty the Snow Man” and “Jingle Bells”…especially because the great majority of people do appreciate and enjoy them. It’s just no big deal to most rational people even though a few of the p.c. “thought police” would like to make it one. Don’t like Christmas carols? Stay away from Christmas concerts! Sounds pretty simple to me!
I must disagree. It is awfully convenient and luxurious of the Christian majority to say “if you don’t like Christmas songs, don’t want your kids to see them, then don’t come to the PUBLIC SCHOOL Christmas show, don’t have your kid participate in the music class, simple as that.” You make it sound like objecting to having your child recite statements which violate the deepest tenets of your religious beliefs is “irrational.” This isn’t a study of music, it isn’t a critique.
How about this: What if the kids in McKinley did a music show covering popular music from throughout the decades. They could do Twist and Shout, and Ain’t Nothin but a Hound Dog, then they could do Eric Clapton’s “Cocaine” for the 70’s, and “White Lines” from Grandmaster Flash for the 80’s. Those are famous and extremely popular songs that most people enjoy (they certainly sold many albums). If you don’t want your six year old singing about cocaine, then don’t let her sing. If you don’t want to listen to songs about cocaine, don’t go to the show.
And yes, I am comparing the concept of Christ as the son of God to the ingestion of cocaine, because some people find those concepts objectionable, and your solution is to tell the people who object “love it or leave it.” And the Constitution reads differently when it comes to issues of God.
It’s about what you would expect from a leftist lunatic and wife of a San Leandro school board member. The last time I looked Christmas was a celebration of the birth of Christ. You don’t even have to be religious to recognize that fact and appreciate the traditional music of the season, some of the most beautiful music ever written in fact. This is the kind of nonsense you would expect from a yahoo from Berkeley although San Leandro is sadly becoming more and more like that metropolis lately!
Besides the name calling, you seemed to miss her point. Why would a non-Christian want to celebrate (in any religious way) the birth of Jesus Christ? Would you afford the same logic to Muhammad, Joseph Smith, Vishnu, etc.? You need to get out more.
Nobody says you have to celebrate the birth of Christ but you might be at least a little tolerant of those that do and just recognize, possibly even enjoy the traditional and what most people consider beautiful music. You need to out more too, more importantly get a life but you’re probably a friend or relative of this wacko, certainly a fellow leftist lunatic!
“Why would a non-Christian want to celebrate…Jesus Christ?”
Hmmmm….maybe because Silent Night is a beautiful song? Or maybe because their friends are enjoying the singing and the celebration? Or because some people can appreciate religious traditions without being a believer (like a Christian going to a Seder or to an Eid celebration or a Hindi wedding)?
Or because beauty transcends ugliness, and the essence of a celebration is perhaps more important than small details like which religious group a person belongs to?
Lets keep the conversation respectable friends. It is teetering on not being a conversation anymore. Please be civil.
Indeed! There is no need to stoop to the vile name calling.
Agnostics would not understand… agnostic pretty much means that you do not have a view on that you care about — you are uncommitted on your convictions on the existence of God.
For someone who has a conviction to a different god (Allah, Buddha) it is insane that they should be required to sing the lyrics of the profession of some other god. Same goes for atheists… it is in direct opposition to their values.
A public school should not allow for what amounts to the teaching of ANY religious message (unless it is in a course about religion). The message in “Silent Night” is that Jesus is Lord. Christ our savior is born! He’s not my savior.
As for the “holiday” — do not delude yourself that this holiday is all about the birth of Jesus Christ — when was Jesus really born? Was it December 25th? Did not pagans and free thinkers celebrate the winter solstice around this date long before the Christians used this convenient time of year to celebrate their significant event? Check your facts. It is a cultural holiday mashed up over the Christian holiday. EVERYONE has a right to participate in the spirit of the holiday season, however they see fit. Sing about Santa and Frosty, and Rudolf. But don’t complain that someone in our society is participating in Christmas celebrations without being a Christian.
What vile name calling? “Leftist lunatic” sounds pretty accurate to me. Nothing profane, nothing sexist, nothing racist. No big deal!
Who is REQUIRED to sing the lyrics? Don’t like them? Don’t sing them? Don’t go to a Christmas concert. As far as I know anyone who participates as performers or audience in a Christmas concert is there voluntarily. Hardly anything “insane” about that. It was apparently just this one rather mean spirited and self righteous woman who over reacted.
No school is TEACHING a religious message by having traditional Christmas music as part of a Christmas program. I’m strongly against any teaching of religion and/or prayer saying in public schools. This IS different though even an extreme self righteous minority may not realize it. I would bet that not one other person objected to this performance that night and almost all greatly enjoyed the evening and the inclusion of the traditional music. I wasn’t there but wish I was.
You can have your silly “Frosty the Snowman” and “Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer”. You’d probably like “Grandma Got Run Over By A Reindeer” too! I’ll take “Silent Night”, “The First Noel” and “Hark the Herald Angels Sing” every time. You don’t have to be a Christian (I’m not!) to enjoy good music nor object to the p.c. “thought police” trying to tell us what we can or can not include in our Christmas music programs.
OK, jerk, lunatic, maniac, nut case, wacko are not name calling. Use your own definition.
We are talking about children here, in this case 6-year old first graders. You clearly do not agree with our philosophy, but we teach our children by words. Words are in songs. We teach our children to think about what is said to them and what they say to others. If something is said to them, to ask questions about it if they do not understand it. You can keep your head and your child’s head in the sand, but thinking people (even if (especially if) they are in the minority) have the right to object to these messages in a public school.
OK, Fred, so you say you are not a Christian, so it does not offend you. You say you are an agnostic… By definition, it doesn’t offend you… you don’t care about what the song says… you like the melody. That’s great for you, but don’t insult people because they are actually thinking about what the lyrics say and find it in violation of their rights.
I find it interesting that someone accused Margarita of NOT being tolerant as a result of her complaint. Clearly there are some people who don’t understand what tolerance means and therefore are unable to practice it. Tolerance does NOT mean accept what the majority wants. If in addition to the Silent Night song there was a song proclaiming the certitude that there is no God and what is being celebrated is Winter Solstice then Margarita probably would have been more accepting. But unfortunately the fact is that the majority of the US population is Christian and as a atheist I know there is no way of escaping it. But our public schools is one of the places where everyone needs to check their religion at the door. Anyone who is saying to themselves “what’s the big deal” is either Christian or not strongly affiliated with any particular religion. But as an atheist with school-age children I can only give my thanks to Margarita for the courage she had to stand up for what she believes in. I wholeheartedly support her.
My dictionary says tolerance means being open minded and if anybody thinks this woman who obviously blew a fuse and stomped out of a Christmas music recital because a Christmas carol was sung is open minded I’ve got a bridge I’d like to sell you. I’m afraid it’s just another sign of our times when no matter what you say or what you do somebody is going to be offended. My personal opinion is that Margarita acted like a fool and like somebody else said I feel fortunate that I will never have to be in the same room with her.
I applaud Margarita Lacabe for her courage, knowing full well the hate that would be generated toward her family. I don’t know that I could be so brave. Ms. Lacabe didn’t show intolerance, but rather restraint.
When she first became upset, she did not contact the press, but rather approached the staff directly requesting a policy change. When the staff would not agree to keep a religious song out of the school’s curriculum (yes, the holiday show is still part of the “curriculum”), Ms. Lacabe did not go to the press. Instead, she reasonably filed a complaint with the district . . . the press chose to publicize this and make an issue out of it.
I was in 9th grade when California schools had to stop requiring the Pledge of Allegiance from all students precisely because it described our republic as “one nation under God.” I was so relieved to no longer have to either say words I didn’t believe, or PRETEND to say them. I hadn’t the courage to stand up for my convictions.
Whether or not you believe the singing of Christmas carols in schools is proselytization, schools must avoid even the APPEARANCE of such in order for all children — young and old — to feel safe and comfortable in an institution which they are required to attend.
You have your opinion and I have mine. I still say that this was much ado about nothing and this woman is a first class fool for being so intolerant! She’s unfortunately a part of a generation that from childhood has thought that things always have to go just the way they want or they are going to kick and scream until mommy and daddy give them exactly like they want. I hope the school district tells her to go take a hike. If she doesn’t like what’s a part of the Christmas concert just stay home and read the Atheist Review or listen to some Heavy Metal or Goth Rock…or whatever! The rest of us can enjoy the concert at the school!
It may be “nothing” to you. If reciting the words in this song violated your religion, I suspect you might feel diferently. You should understand that Silent Night contains the lyrics “Jesus, Lord at they Birth.” Both Jews and Muslims reject the notion of Jesus as the son of God. Jews and Muslims are commanded to recognize God as the one and only Lord, and to take no other. If the PUBLIC school asked your six year old to sing a traditional Jewish song (and remember, Judaism is older that Christianity) which expressly rejected the divinity of Jesus, would you treat it as “nothing?” What if your child returned and said that she learned in music class that God had no son, that there was no saviour, and that the Messiah had not come? Light issues, right? Nothing at all, right?
And what about the lyrics “virgin mother”? So it would be nothing to have your first grader (and I have one) explore the concept of a virgin mother with a elementary school music teacher. “Well Timmy, a virgin mother is a woman who delivers a baby without having been inseminated with a man’s sperm. It is a concept that is contrary to everything we know about biology, but Christians beleive that God inseminated (put his sperm in) Mary, or made her pregnant in some other, magical, non-scientific way.”
That would be pretty upsetting to me. But maybe you think it is just more petty complaining.
Mia Ousley said
“Whether or not you believe the singing of Christmas carols in schools is proselytization, schools must avoid even the APPEARANCE of such in order for all children — young and old — to feel safe and comfortable in an institution which they are required to attend”
Wow! NOT singing an old Christmas carol as part of a Christmas concert is supposed to make our children feel safe and comfortable in our schools eh? I would think that bullies and punks and thugs, some of them armed with guns might be a greater threat to their safety and comfort than one of those dreaded Christmas carols but what do I know? I’m really getting educated here today myself!
Andrew Kopp wrote:
“That would be pretty upsetting to me. But maybe you think it is just more petty complaining.”
Nah none of that stuff would bother me at all Mr. Kopp. Traditional Jewish religious songs no matter what they implied would be just fine in public schools with me, particular if they were appropriate for a special/seasonal/holiday occasion. I think I could explain to my children how “virgin mother” related to Christianity too, leaving them to make up their own minds at a later time whether that’s a realistic concept or not.
More than anything elseI would hope that I could instill in them a tolerance for other people’s religion definitely not demonstrated by one Ms. Margarita Lacabe.
I am a fence sitter. Not part of any specific religion. Yet intrigued by them all. And, I have been really enjoying this conversation from its’ start.
As I read through the posts, I am loving that I have not found one that I completely agree, or disagree, with. Every post has been, to me, very well balanced and thoughtful. Just when I think one might stray to the fringes of propriety, the poster has brought it back with an application of logic, or understanding.
I know this is a little too “feel good” for the moment. But I really want to tell you all how proud I am to be a part of your community. Your discussion has invigorated my weekend and I am very thankful to be your neighbor.
I think the Justice Jackson of the United States Supreme Court said it best “Music without sacred music, architecture minus the cathedral, or painting without the scriptural themes would be eccentric and incomplete, even from a secular view.” What about the music of Handel or the paintings of Leonardo da Vinci? How far are you willing to go? Is participation the problem or the music and art? Should we have field trips to museums that might contain religious art? Should we learn about the California Missions in public school? Where will you draw the line?
The point that is continuously lost in this discussion is the particular setting of this concert – an elementary school. I agree with Justice Jackson that religious items and artifacts cannot be excluded from the spectrum of variety, but this was not a critical, analytical study of holiday music. This was an elementary school having a holiday show, for which the music teacher selected many songs. The ONLY religious song was Silent Night. The concepts of Silent Night were not explained, discussed, contrasted, or analyzed. The words were simply repeatedly recited.
My nine year old, in 4th grade, learned about the California Missions – a very valuable lesson indeed. She did not simply recite the credo of the California Missions, she visited them and studied their context in history. That is appropriate and rewarding. That is NOT what happened when Ms. Lacabe’s six year old recited Silent Night, and that is a problem.
So the ONLY religious song that night was “Silent Night” eh? That’s just what I suspected and I make my case again…much ado about NOTHING! No reason to explain, discuss, contrast or analyze that song any more than you would do so any other Christmas song during a recital. Only a self righteous, intolerant fool would get upset over such an inconsequential event. This is the same mentality that is always trying to ban books in public and school libraries because they offend their p.c. sensibility in even the slightest way. What a bunch of….oh you know…and I’m too much of a gentleman to really use that word!
I’m well aware of the setting and the fact that a religious song was included in a secular program. The Anti-defamation League speaks to this exact set of facts and arrives at the following conclusion:
“The school concert may constitutionally include some religious songs provided that the concert features mostly secular songs, and that the concert as a whole is primarily educational, secular, objective and nondenominational. However, participation should be voluntary . . .”
The passage above is from the ADL web site and it is specifically discussing the song “silent night”.
As a musician I have studied and performed all kinds of music. Some of that music expressed religious ideas that I did not share but was none the less worthy of being performed even in a school setting. My public high school choir went to choral competitions performing songs with lyrics like “Glory to God” and such. It was great music from an time when most of the music composed was religious. We should look at the intent behind including a piece of music in the program. Did they intend to convert all of the children and attendees to Christianity? Do you honestly think that was the goal?
Can someone tell my why those who disagree with Ms. Lacabe are being so mean here? Sure there’s been no swearing, but there’s no denying the vitriol… nut case, self-centered jerk, whacko, lunatic… and all the sarcasm and snide remarks.
Really, while this is the internet, I’m assuming these are local folks here. Let’s have a discussion, not a bashing. Ms. Lacabe, and your opinion of her, have nothing at all to do with the issue itself. Leave the personal attacks out of it and have a rational discussion.
You may have a point but I think Ms. Lacabe’s (in my opinion) selfish and mean spirited actions along with some of the people who have been defending her behavior with flimsy logic (“she was concerned with the mental health of her child”) have prompted a sometimes hostile response here, probably a response that the great majority of people at the concert that night and the San Leandro population in general would agree with.
Looking back at my own postings I don’t think I overreacted but I’m sure others would disagree. All I can tell you is that I call ‘em as I see ‘em and I suspect Ms. Lacabe does the same thing, quite a bit of vitriol demonstrated on her side of the fence too! I suspect that this is something we’ll just have to agree to disagree about. I also suspect that it’s about time to move on!
Marga’s right on this one. For a liberal “whacko,” I think she’s exercised restraint by only calling for one religious song to be removed from the public school Christmas program curriculum and not calling for its cancellation entirely. What she’s asked for sounds really, really reasonable to me.
As Christians and US citizens, we have the responsibilitiy to treat those with differing belief systems with respect and kindness – they way Jesus taught us to treat our fellow man. Additionally, we have to understand that while our nation has Christian roots and traditions; our Constitutional democracy is founded on the fact that the state has absofrigginlutely no role in religion whatsoever, and we should continuously strive to keep it that way. Otherwise we’re no better than Islamic theocracies.
As a Christian, I pray that Marga and her family will eventually come to know Jesus. I think he’d like them–the work she and Mike do as secular humanists to help others is in line with his teachings on how we should live our lives. But as a Christian and a US nationalist, I wholeheartedly support her argument against the state promoting the Christian religion via the public school system, and pray that the San Leandro School Board would decide this matter based on common sense and rule of law.
Furthermore, there’s a simple solution in all this–take the song out of the school program; and let one of the many churches in San Leandro take the lead and photocopy and distribute the lyrics at San Leandro’s downtown Christmas event–so that everyone in the crowd who feels compelled to can sing. That can become San Leandro’s new Christmas tradition.
You may THINK Marga is right on this one Frank but yours is obviously a minority opinion. Most of us think she’s wrong! Sorry but including ONE traditional Christmas carol in a Christmas concert is not really “promoting religion via the public school system” regardless what you or her think. I would also pray that the San Leandro School Board would decide the matter based on common sense (that wouldn’t be the way you or Marga want it to of course!) but considering who is on the board and in particular who heads the board I’m not holding my breath.
You do have to wonder why so many atheists are such unpleasant people to be around. From Madalyn Murray O’Hare to Margarita Lacabe and almost all the others that I have come in contact with over the years…what a bunch of sour personalities…what a bunch of malcontents! Too bad they are always trying to impose their narrow minded and selfish philosophy on the rest of us!
“You may THINK Marga is right on this one Frank but yours is obviously a minority opinion.”
Thankfully our government does not operate on the “you are the minority opinion, so too bad for you” rule. Our laws protect minorities from such abuses and heavy-handedness. Those who wrote our constitution learned to ensure this the hard way, by being persecuted by OTHER Christians in their own country, England. So, how to solve it? Create a government which has within it’s rules, a prohibition against involving itself with a particular religion. I think that’s pretty clear.
As for why you feel atheists are so “unpleasant,” I don’t know. Maybe it’s a reaction to you personally. I’ve not found atheists to be any more sour than any other person I run into. Whether that was my late father, my late mother, either of my brothers, my sister, my aunt and uncle, any of their kids. I could go on, but it’s a pretty absurd thing to say…
As for imposing a narrow minded selfish philosophy… I think you need a refresh of what the situation is in this country. It’s not the atheists which are pushing a philosophy on others, it’s quite the opposite. Look at this message board where those condemning these actions provide mostly ad hominem attacks, straw man arguments, and more…
I think it doesn’t need saying that a forum like this is no place to discuss something as serious as this issue and expect any kind of resolution, but the one-sidedness of the arguments made, the lack of grasp of the reality of what ever-presence the majority christian religion has in this country, and the insensitivity to other’s beliefs (or lack thereof) make any kind of meaningful discussion here nearly impossible.
There is no moral victory in vilifying the other side or making arguments that don’t ACTUALLY make an argument other than to undermine the credibility of the other.
Oh yeah it’s “abuse and heavy handedness” to include one traditional Christmas carol in a Christmas concert, a song that’s been a part of Christmas and Christmas music for the last couple hundreds of years! This isn’t an abuse of the proper separation of church and state except in the minds a few certain self centered and self righteous fools in our community, one in particular.
I can only base my remarks about atheists on my own personal experience and what I know from reading about certain obnoxious public figures. As far as I know I have never met any members of your family so I am in no position to comment on them nor on any other atheist in the world. I take your word that they were and are not malcontents. Since you don’t me it seems a bit absurd to say that my negative opinion of those atheists that I have met is based on their negative reactions to my own personality.
In this case it’s the minority in the form of one Maragarita Lacabe who is trying to push her philosophy on the majority which in this case is every one else who was in the audience that night and apparently was enjoying the music without complaint. Yeah I know…the majority doesn’t count, do they?
Since your arguments have been just as much or more one sided as those of the rest of us and in your opinion any kind of resolution is impossible I don’t know why you bother to continue to comment. As far as “insensitivity to other’s beliefs” you have to look no further than Ms. Lacabe for a prime example of that.
Like your specious arguments are not trying to undermine the credibility of the other side huh?
How can a pure atheist live in a city with SAN (Saint) in the name and a mayor by the name of SANTOS (holy man?). Let’s rename our town to LEANDRO and change mayors. But then, who cares?
I went through this as a child. It is very damaging to a child to have to stand up for themselves and be different. We are, after all, talking about children as young as four or five. It is horrible to make a child walk off of a stage for a song and back on by themself, as I had to. It is amazing to me when one of my students, usually a Jehovah’s Witness, will stand up for their beliefs, because the pressure and anger is still so prevalent, as vividly demonstrated by the respondents on this page Every year teachers in my school give ‘fun’ Christamas quizes that I could not have passed as a child Every year my school, as most in this area, are decorated with Christmas trees and decorations.Last year my multi-religous class was forced to sing that very song expressing numerous Christian tenets. It is a terrible time of year for me, because I am reminded every day, all day long, that I am ‘the other’. We should be kinder to our students and parents than that.
Oh my God Debra do you think the little darlings will ever recover from the trauma of seeing Christmas trees and (gasp!) decorations, of singing or hearing that horrible song “expressing numerous Christian tenets”? The mind shudders at the long term psychological damage that it will inevitably cause! I agree it truly is a “terrible time of year” for us all! Allah be praised it only happens once a year!
If there is anything to be learned from this thread it’s that the term “zealots” isn’t restricted to fundamentalist Christians! Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill! Just another sign of the times though I suppose!
I have read all of the above posts and in my opinion this has gone way to far…
This entire situation could have been handeled with simple communication.
I do not agree that the song should be taken out of the program, but I do believe that the parents should have been informed as to what their children would be singing. Then if the parent would rather have their child not participate in that song it would be their right to not perform.
It just seems to me that the District has more important things to worry about like the Budget for the next school year….
I would think the children would know in advance what songs are going to be performed and would have a chance to opt out if that is their wish or their parents’ wish. I would also think parents might inquire of their children or the school if they are so concerned that their child might be subjected to such an outrage as having to perform or listen to a traditional Christmas carol.
Wouldn’t it be sort of natural to expect that Christmas carols, at least a couple of them would be part of a Christmas concert? They have been part of almost every Christmas album (LP, cassette, CD, etc.) I’ve ever heard, a part of every Christmas TV special I’ve ever seen, every Christmas concert I’ve ever attended. What’s the big deal? I just don’t get it!
I fully agree that the song should NOT be taken out of the program and I also agree that the District has more important things to worry about. Furthermore let me join the chorus in saying I wouldn’t even want to be in the same room with one certain individual who shall remain nameless.
This whole fiasco is just another example how San Leandro is rapidly going to the dogs! Dublin is looking better every day!
LeRoy Whittle
Been Here Since 1968
Hey! Let’s bring in some Christmas gansta rap!
Hoe Hoe Hoe..Open up da door!!
Wouldn’t want any openmindedness..
All music is created equal
Santa Claus that’s an idiotic comment which adds nothing to the discussion here!
You do have to suspect that if it was some other race or religion that wanted to include THEIR song at a Christmas concert these same radical Christmas carol bashers would be demanding that song be included. You know…diversity and tolerance and all that stuff! Christianity is the real enemy here. Then there is that selfish but dominant modern day philosophy that if I don’t like something then I have the right to stamp it out for everyone else.
Mrs. Katz-Lacabe is failing to use basic reasoning. The birth of Jesus of Nazareth was an HISTORICAL EVENT, corroborated beyond doubt by secular historians. Additionally, the lyrics to Rudolph do indeed overt religious references. The song refers to Saint Nick (Santa), who was also an historical figure, a bishop. And Feliz Navidad means literally “Happy Christmas”. And who said “Feliz Navidad” is not sung in any church? And who crowned her with license to draw this arbitrary line of distinction that if a song is sung in any church, it is off-limits in school. Go to Hell, Mrs. Katz, if you wish, but don’t try to drag the rest of us with you.
Mrs. Katz-Lacabe is failing to use basic reasoning. The birth of Jesus of Nazareth was an HISTORICAL EVENT, corroborated beyond doubt by secular historians. Additionally, the lyrics to Rudolph do indeed include overt religious references. The song refers to Saint Nick (Santa), who was also an historical figure, a bishop. And Feliz Navidad means literally “Happy Christmas”. And who said “Feliz Navidad” is not sung in any church? And who crowned her with license to draw this arbitrary line of distinction that if a song is sung in any church, it is off-limits in school. Go to Hell, Mrs. Katz, if you wish, but don’t try to drag the rest of us with you.
Oh Please! If it’s a Christmas concert (and what so-called “holiday concert” that happens to take place in late December and includes St. Nick, Rudolph and snowmen isn’t?), then I would expect a few traditional carols to be sung.
Besides, some children don’t even know that the basis for Christmas is Jesus Christ’s birthday. I would hope that a school would feel empowered enough to teach that cultural tidbit. Whether one follows Christianity as a religion and belief system is totally up to each person (that’s freedom of religion), but let’s be honest here: America is culturally Christian. Don’t believe me? When was the last time you heard the call to prayer over loudspeakers five times a day, had the cafeteria shut down during Ramadan; had Rosh Hashanna and Yom Kippur off as paid holidays, or no important engagements that required driving on a Saturday; or ate a hamburger (can’t do that in the Hindu parts of India)?
Kudos for the school for teaching students about some Christmas traditions. San Leandro is diverse, and it helps many students and families feel united when we understand and participate in big cultural festivities (I know, I’m in a mixed cultural marriage and have lived in my husband’s country).
I’m sorry that Mrs. Katz can’t understand that one of the purposes of school is to educate students and provide them with experiences that both challenge and support their personal and academic growth. And, yes, that means learning a traditional Christmas carol. If we don’t know where we’ve come from, how can we know where we’re going?
Are we not a democracy? I am fed up with the liberal left telling me as an educator not to teach my students traditional Christmas carols based on separation of church and state. Silent Night and Away in a Manger are lullabies, What is wrong with abstaining from the singing the song. We have many students who participate in programs and don’t sing songs because of religious preference. That is their right. Teachers don’t force students to sing, we encourage. And as for Mrs. Katz, opt. out! I say the majority rules. This is The United States of America, a land preserved and established on the basis of religious freedom. Let our children learn about Jewish, Christian, and Muslim traditions without risk of retaliation. Again, do we not live in a democracy?